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 Post subject: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Venerable

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:05 pm
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"Blue Collar Mentality" is a term I used in another area recently that brought some criticism. I stated that those with it are more likely to embrace noise culture, while stating police officers often have this mentality.

I later explained that I have nothing against blue-collar workers, having been raised by one and having worked as one. Let me add that I count police officers among my friends and family and I have worked closely with police in Philadelphia. Also, I pointed out that noise culture is increasingly embraced by others.

But my term clearly groups people, and many board members have voiced disagreement. Here I am, someone who won't use terms like "white trash," "trailer trash," and similar because they unfairly group people, and I'm using a term that has offended people for how it groups.

I'm open to gaining understanding that I'm being unfair. Frankly, I'm at a loss. We've become so afraid of using terms that could be construed as derisive that we don't always communicate as well as we might. Chris Rock uses the "N"-word; he's black, yet finds fault with some who share his color. I find fault with those who embrace noise culture, while recognizing our shared traits, and I don't feel it's bad to point it out.

So, where have I gone wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:29 pm 
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Venerable

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:23 pm
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hello bob, i find myself using words like trailer trash all the time, thanks mostly to the way they act and tv shows like cops! its too bad people think its a sterotype, but what it is is the truth, these people really do act this way! just look at jerry springer, man i hate that show because of the trailer trash exposure! not sure about the blue/white coller thing im sure people who make hundereds of thousands each year can certainly be nfh themselves! i wouldnt say you have gone wrong.....

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:28 am 
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Venerable

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:41 pm
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<, I am, someone who won't use terms like "white trash," "trailer trash," >>

But how does that differ from saying "nouveaux trashe"? which is what you named a forum? I am totally confused now.
Carol , OUT! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:07 am 
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I didn't understand the blue collar comment, either.

I suspect that those types of workers work in a noisy environment. Some tune it out and noise doesn't bother them anymore. Others don't, and when they go home they want to enjoy some peace and quiet.

The term I like to use is 'noise bully'. It's not very elegant or symbolic, but it accurately describes the aggressor. They don't always realize that they are causing a problem, but when they do, they start a noise war. If that's the case, everyone loses.

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:50 am 
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Big Dawg

Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:55 am
Posts: 478
Bob wrote:
"Blue Collar Mentality" is a term I used in another area recently that brought some criticism. I stated that those with it are more likely to embrace noise culture, while stating police officers often have this mentality.

I later explained that I have nothing against blue-collar workers, having been raised by one and having worked as one. Let me add that I count police officers among my friends and family and I have worked closely with police in Philadelphia. Also, I pointed out that noise culture is increasingly embraced by others.

But my term clearly groups people, and many board members have voiced disagreement. Here I am, someone who won't use terms like "white trash," "trailer trash," and similar because they unfairly group people, and I'm using a term that has offended people for how it groups.

I'm open to gaining understanding that I'm being unfair. Frankly, I'm at a loss. We've become so afraid of using terms that could be construed as derisive that we don't always communicate as well as we might. Chris Rock uses the "N"-word; he's black, yet finds fault with some who share his color. I find fault with those who embrace noise culture, while recognizing our shared traits, and I don't feel it's bad to point it out.

So, where have I gone wrong?



I didn't get the impression in the "Fireworks" thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2942&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a) that you intended for the term "Blue Collar Mentality" to be all-encompassing, or that you were saying that ALL police officers have a blue-collar mentality, although you did say they "often" do, which might imply the majority of them. However, if I had had any doubt about your intent, your subsequent explanation(s) would have cleared it up.

What I find confusing (perhaps cognitive dissonance is the more appropriate term :D ) is how anyone can take offense to what you said after participating in a discussion in which they make a connection between having a “name that ends with a vowel” and being an NFH (viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2933&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a).

Thus, I find it difficult to take the complaints that you were offensive very seriously.

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Last edited by Norma Rae on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 am 
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Cantankerous Old Coot

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:00 pm
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"Trailer trash" has been a widely accepted slang for low income, trashy people for decades (regardless of whether or not they actually do/have lived in a trailer). It may not be 100% accurate, but it's kinda like calling all cola "Coke".

"Blue collar" (manual labor, factory work, etc.) only denotes the type of job the person/people do just as "white collar" (office workers) does. "Noise mentality" may be a subset of "blue collar" but does not comprise all of "blue collar" therefore "blue collar" = "noise mentality" is incorrect. Just as tigers are a subset of cats, but not all cats are tigers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subset

In using the term "Blue Collar Mentality" you are unfairly casting all "Blue Collar" as having the "noise mentality", which is what (as far as I can tell) got so many of us riled.

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:01 pm 
[quote="Bob]I'm open to gaining understanding that I'm being unfair. Frankly, I'm at a loss. We've become so afraid of using terms that could be construed as derisive that we don't always communicate as well as we might. Chris Rock uses the "N"-word; he's black, yet finds fault with some who share his color. I find fault with those who embrace noise culture, while recognizing our shared traits, and I don't feel it's bad to point it out.[quote]

Does Chris Rock say most black people are "N' or does he simply use it in reference to an individual?

I like GLB's term "noise bully" because ultimately that's what they are no matter where or why...


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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Venerable

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 1978
I like "noise bully" too. I think it sums it all up. No need to explain it any other way.

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Clarence Darrow

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:06 pm 
xyz wrote:
In using the term "Blue Collar Mentality" you are unfairly casting all "Blue Collar" as having the "noise mentality", which is what (as far as I can tell) got so many of us riled.


Exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Venerable

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:05 pm
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Lotsa good stuff -- thanks. I don't find the term "blue colloar mentality" derisive for reasons explained, but it is not the best way to describe the noise-acculturated, who are often blue-collar but not always. I'll stick with noise culture and noise-acculturated.

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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Veteran

Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:43 pm
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Bob, I like the 'noise culture' description.

Or just state that blue-collar workers and blue-collar mentality are two very different things.

I still keep in touch with folks in my old area. I've gotten to know someone who owned a plumbing company for many years (mainly through their dog, who seems to have adopted me as one of her family). He would go into every neighbourhood, every walk of life, every social and other status. Some of his opinions were quite interesting - especially the folks living in each type of housing.


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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:55 am 
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Cantankerous Old Coot

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:00 pm
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whatdidido wrote:
I still keep in touch with folks in my old area. I've gotten to know someone who owned a plumbing company for many years (mainly through their dog, who seems to have adopted me as one of her family). He would go into every neighbourhood, every walk of life, every social and other status. Some of his opinions were quite interesting - especially the folks living in each type of housing.

So, are you gonna share these opinions or just leave us hanging?

On a related note more/less, GeezerNFH had his own plumbing business too & did some work for a "friend".
Creeped me the h*ll out just how much info he knew about us via "chatting" with this "friend' (just keeps to himself & minds his own business MY @SS! He tried to roundaboutly weedle info out of me when I went to talk to him about our fence a couple yrs ago.).

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I'd like to watch you suffer...
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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:08 am 
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Cantankerous Old Coot

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:00 pm
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Bob wrote:
Lotsa good stuff -- thanks. I don't find the term "blue colloar mentality" derisive for reasons explained, but it is not the best way to describe the noise-acculturated, who are often blue-collar but not always. I'll stick with noise culture and noise-acculturated.

I myself like terms "noise junkies" or "racketheads", gotta have their fix!

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[i]I'll watch you burn in Hell,
I'll see you in your grave,
I'd like to watch you suffer...
For the evil that you've made. - David Byrne
[/i]


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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:52 am 
Educated people are more likely to seek constructive solutions to potential conflicts. Uneducated ones tend to behave in a "might makes right" Darwinian manner. NFHs are very territorial and operate on instinct at a very primitive level. They don't belong in civilization.


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 Post subject: Re: NFH mentalities
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:44 pm 
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palmtree wrote:
Educated people are more likely to seek constructive solutions to potential conflicts.


I have not found this to be the case. Yes, there are trashy people who don't respect others. But, I have found that some highly educated people are at least equal in their lack of respect. I attribute it to a learned level of smug and superior attitude. I have seen a number of over-educated assholes who insist that their solution is the only possible solution because, hey my degrees mean I'm smarter than you. These people are NFH just as easily as the guy who cleans sewers for a living.

There are good people in both groups. Most "blue-collar" people are hard working and understand that in order to get along they have to restrain their behaviors. Most educated people are the same.

palmtree wrote:
Uneducated ones tend to behave in a "might makes right" Darwinian manner.


There is a difference between someone who has a healthy respect for the dangers of power, and someone who aggressively uses power. I doubt education level is a contributor, environment and intelligence, now there are potential causal factors.

As we've seen in the news of late, the environment where people learned to live can have an enormous impact on how they choose to live. My notion of normalcy would be unusual in a place such as Ferguson, MO., where apparently walking down the middle of the street is accepted as a "normal" practice. In certain areas of LA County a person has to live with a degree of aggression and bravado that I would find unusual. Even something as simple as music. I expect that I won't have to live with my neighbors bass speakers, at all. In most inner city areas my expectation would be unreasonable as having loud bass speakers in the car and home is the cultural norm. Just as having to listen to loud country music is a normal practice in many trailer parks across the country. Crossing the boundary into being a NFH means that you deliberately step outside of what is normal for the purpose of being abusive.

Intelligence (for lack of a better term) is an area that is very much in play with NFH. It's been discussed here many times. While NFH can be somewhat clever or devious at times, it is almost universally accepted that they aren't overly intelligent. I believe this is seen in the inability to process data against their own preconceived notions. i.e. I should be able to play my music as loud as I want to inside of my own home, which means that the person complaining about it is overly sensitive and f*** him I will show him by turning it up more. Education is not equal to intelligence, I personally know a person with a PHd who is a moron, fortunately he is harmless.

palmtree wrote:
NFHs are very territorial and operate on instinct at a very primitive level. They don't belong in civilization.


Here we agree completely. NFH are broken people, wired wrong, they don't fit in anywhere. These people don't fit in because they thrive on not fitting in and the chaos it causes. This crosses the boundaries of all level of education and intelligence along with geography, age, race, gender. NFH would be a bad apple in any bushel.

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